In Good Company with Maggie Hoffman

I took the train over to Maggie Hoffman’s beautiful Brooklyn home on a sunny fall afternoon to learn more about the former Managing Editor of Serious Eats, former Digital Director of Epicurious, and now host of a beloved cooking podcast, The Dinner Plan. After being warmly welcomed into her home, I took in her character-filled space with starry eyes – the stuff of dreams for someone who spent her formative early-career years in the suburbs reading Bon Appetit and watching Girls on HBO: Piles of cookbooks snugly sitting on bookshelves, cocktail ingredient collections hiding behind huge glass cabinets and lined up across a dining room fireplace mantle, beautiful servingware and hosting accoutrements stacked elegantly across a midcentury buffet. I found it strikingly refreshing that it wasn’t perfectly tidy. More on that later. We whipped up a couple of NA cocktails to photograph (you’ll be seein’ ‘em) and sat down to dive into her very impressive, very layered career in food and beverage media.

 

A: Tell me about your background.

M: So, after college, I worked in book publishing, and was truly always thinking about cooking. We were hosting dinner parties in our tiny little apartment, and I started taking pictures of what I was cooking, and started a blog with a friend. Those were the days when everyone who was blogging in New York knew each other. 

A: I romanticize that period so much.

M: It really was a kind of exciting moment. So, I wrote to Serious Eats, which I was reading obsessively and said, there's a lot of exciting stuff that's going on in drinks right now. You should get someone to write about drinks. And particularly, I said, craft beer is really on the rise. This was like 2009, 2010. It was an exciting time in food blogs, and there were a few go-tos… there was Smitten Kitchen and there was David Lebovitz, Orangette, and The Wednesday Chef… Those are the OGs. Ed Levine started this food site that included New York restaurant notes, more and more about cooking... He brought in Kenji López-Alt to develop recipes and test cooking techniques. He purchased Slice, and Adam Kuban was going around reviewing pizza. There was briefly this airline deal where you could take an unlimited number of weekday flights around the country for a month – so when the team was working on the Serious Eats book, they were eating in so many cities all over the place, trying dozens of sandwiches and pizza and doughnuts and pancakes everything else... So yeah, there were sort of these different obsessives, and it was a moment of extreme nerdiness in food. And I was like, I want in I. I really want it in. So I said, I'm from Oregon – you should hire me to write about beer. At that time, there were many breweries, but not like now. You could write to 50 breweries and they would send you things to taste for an article. I would invite a group of people over and we would taste, like, 52 brown ales. So I joined Serious Eats first as a freelancer and then convinced them to hire me full time.

These people were just all so smart and so talented, and it was a real moment of experimentation. It was a really exciting time. We were sort of throwing things at the wall. But really, one thing we started to see on the drinks side is that people were excited about what was happening in cocktails. It was that moment where neo-speakeasy bars had opened and craft cocktails suddenly were so, so good. People were reviving historical cocktail ingredients, and learning about ice and proper technique, and you were suddenly able to make these really specific historical drinks and bartenders were sort of bringing people along for this ride. I got to learn so much. I was hiring great writers. I was editing their work. I would make the drinks, we would shoot photos of them in the corner of the office. I ended up being the managing editor at Serious Eats.

I eventually left to write 2 cocktail books. While I was writing them, I also started writing for the San Francisco Chronicle, where I would review bars. In those days I was thinking a lot about hosting and the concept of the second book about big-batch cocktails. It's all about drinks for entertaining. The idea was that if you have people over, you want to be with them. The point of having people over is to pay attention to them, to spend quality time together… and to be fussing with a jigger and measuring cups and all the things is not really the right thing to do in that moment. You can release so much of that, like, running-around energy by making a batched cocktail in advance. It was really that thinking about hosting and bringing people together around food and drink that has sort of carried through my career. There was a non-alcoholic chapter in that book because I wanted to make sure that these gatherings were always welcoming to everyone.

Eventually I came back to New York and joined Epicurious. It was a very different era of the internet, compared to the last time I was writing for a website. The way people relate to food and cooking has changed, the internet has changed. I walked in on the first day in the office and everybody on staff had, like, a mountain of cookbooks on their desks. I was like, this is so great, these are my people. I was there for about four years and ended up being the Digital Director. In 2020 I wrote a story about burnout in the kitchen. At that point, I think a lot of people, especially people who had young children during the early days of the pandemic, were juggling so much. It really felt like people were struggling not only to find time to  cook, but to think about what's for dinner – and they needed help, and to feel heard. I’ve always thought about that mental side of what we do when we cook and entertain. I got a lot of emails about that story at the time, and it kind of stuck in my mind.

I eventually decided to go independent, and start a podcast and newsletter: The Dinner Plan.

A: Tell me about it! When did you start it?

M: About a year ago. I think we just published the 70th episode!

It’s kind of like when you're on an airplane and they say, you know, put on your own oxygen mask first before helping others. I think a lot of cooks push themselves to a place of depletion in serving others. Sometimes, it’s hard to think of one more dinner idea, you know? So, in the podcast, not all the cooking we talk about is easy. But a lot of the cooking we talk about is exciting. It's like, what will get you excited to cook again? 

Sometimes you’re hosting a holiday party and making fun little bites and you’re not following the rules of what you have to serve. And sometimes you’re inviting people over on a Wednesday for spaghetti and just spending time together. It's not a podcast about feeding kids. It's not really a podcast about cooking tips. It's about inspiration. That's the whole story. I host these wonderful people in the food industry and hear what they're making for dinner, what their advice is when you’re having trouble coming up with ideas for what to cook, what they love to make when they have people over. We talk about what they really cook, the recipes that they would recommend to a friend… you really get to know them a little bit. Like, what do they cook when they're exhausted? What do they cook when they have, you, know half a cabbage in the fridge?

So I talk to a different cookbook author every week, and then my newsletter that week includes a recipe or two from the book, and a chance to win a copy. At the end of every show, a listener calls in and lists what they have in their pantry or their freezer, their fridge, and it's a little bit of a “stump the guest” situation. We’ve all been there: you’ve got eggs, frozen dumplings, random bits of veg, what should you cook? 

A: Did your family grow up being like a big kitchen family, big cooking family?

M: My mom was an amazing cook, and we used to sit together and cut up Gourmet magazines. She had these big binders of recipes. I learned to cook mostly after college because I was living in a dorm – and I would have these conversations with my mother… what are you cooking? What’s exciting you about food? In some ways, the show continues that conversation. 

A: Let’s talk about the NA space. I love hearing your notes about inclusivity and how that was kind of already in your mind, years and years ago. It's becoming more mainstream now, but you were really kind of ahead of that curve. When did you start shifting away from always feeling like you wanted a standard, spirited cocktail?

M: My friend, Julia Bainbridge, published Good Drinks. I want to say it was between my first and second book. It was this amazing project where she traveled around tasting what cutting edge bartenders were up to. It was the early days, and she was really leading the way in terms of documenting it and getting those recipes. So many bartenders were just starting to realize that this was essential. You want people to come to your bar with a friend who's not drinking. You want people to stick around for two hours and alternate drinks with and without alcohol. There’s such a spectrum of people who will take advantage of a fun NA option on a menu.

For me, I really value everyone who is creating handmade products across the drinks space, alcohol and non. I have a lot of friends who are winemakers, and I am always interested in finding the good stuff. And what has really spurred me to bring more NA into my life is how much better the options are now compared to even five years ago.

When I was writing my first book, the idea was “one bottle cocktails”. So, you had a spirit, and you had stuff that you had to make from scratch to accompany. We made a bitter syrup from radicchio! I did include a non-alcoholic chapter in the second book, which felt really important to have this chapter of special drinks that don’t include alcohol, but back then there was more than you definitely had to do from scratch, fewer NA building blocks available. The early bartenders who were playing around with these drinks had to figure that out, too, and of course some still are.

But what you can do now without those involved kitchen projects is so amazing. Take our Cranberry-Citrus Aperitivo ... It's basically four ingredients. You get the complexity from the Citrus Spritz – it already has your spices in it – you don't have to, like, make a specific kind of tea. Back in the day, we were making all these teas and infusions and syrups, and it was all so fun, but it's sometimes not realistic. It's a big change that now you can dump three ingredients into a glass and it's a real, delicious, complex cocktail.

A: And I think too, it's really the people who love food and bev and love these, like, really specific flavors and the quality and craftsmanship of a nice cocktail, that aren't drinking to drink. They're drinking for the flavor and nuance and complexity. I also think for people in the industry – it's such an important audience to consider because a lot of bar and restaurant folks are sober. They're tastemakers, they have relationships with their regulars… they’re the original “influencer”.

M: Exactly.

A: I wanted to also ask about hosting. It’s a big part of TZP and why we exist. Do you have any tips and tricks? What do you love about hosting?

M: I think you hear a lot of people say, oh, the data is saying that people aren't hosting. People aren’t hanging out anymore. But I think you have to create a culture among your friends that it doesn’t have to be something that you plan for weeks and weeks and weeks and  be totally perfect. You can create a culture in which you invite people over for pizza, and just hang out. You see so many people taking the social apps off their phone for the weekend or whatever, there’s so much commentary about people feeling like we have shifted our lives to be mostly online and mostly not in person. And I think the answer to battling that is to invite people over. You know, you're not providing a restaurant experience. You have to make it low key. And it’s great to let people know what to expect. I was interviewing Dan Pelosi – he has this book, Let’s Party. And he says, it's really good to tell people the specifics… Like, you're going to show up at 5:30. We're going to have snacks. I made this drink to accompany. Then we're going to have dinner at 6:30. And it's going to be a sweatpants. I've read this great piece about purposefully making your hosting radically casual. If you have a perfect house and perfect, impressive food, no one else is going to reciprocate the invitation at their house, and they're not gonna really feel comfortable at yours. And it doesn't have to be a blowout, and it doesn't have to leave you with a hangover. I think the best way to host is to know what you can do comfortably. It's to be stocked with things that make your life easier. Because that means you're gonna do it more often, and build connections with other people. 

A: I read an article a couple years ago – their tip was to have friends over and fold your laundry in front of them. It kind of disarms people from being like, I have to be so formal and uncomfortable and “grown up”. Like, we can just co-exist. You can check your phone. You can put your feet up.

M: And you can eat food that doesn't feel like you'd see it in a restaurant.

A: Do you like to host during the holidays? What do you like to serve?

M: I really like lower-key get-togethers. There are already so many big events... People have work parties, people have family traditions…. I'm kind of like, we don't need to compete with that. Let’s just catch up! I really don't want to say to my friends, “Life is crazy. See you in January!” Again, a simple pizza dinner and a cocktail. Perfect. A December movie night. Lovely. A Thanksgiving leftovers party and a cocktail. A cookie party and a cocktail. 100%.

But yes, I will cook Thanksgiving for my family, and we have a Christmas morning breakfast tradition. We also sometimes do a Hanukkah party with this recipe we love – you get a bunch of tater tots, and you smush them in a waffle iron to make something similar to latkes, but tater tot waffles. Very crispy, with potatoes, onions, and buy a bunch of easy things to put on top. It's super, super easy. Imagine that with Oddbird Sparkling Blanc de Blancs or their Sparkling Rose. Honestly, I think you want bubbles basically for the whole month. 

A: That sounds amazing. Any last holiday tips?

M: Yes! One last suggestion. This time of year, you know that you are going to go to parties, you’re going to see people, you’re going to host. Think ahead a bit… think about how many events you have, and get the stuff that you love to drink early so that you are not running to a corner store and buying garbage on your way to a party. Don’t let yourself be surprised with a last-minute errand. You will get better quality things if you think about it in advance. You might even get a discount if you buy in volume! And truly – people are delighted when you have NA options. Like, bring a non-alcoholic mimosa, and then you can have brunch and not take a nap. Pretty nice.

Make Maggie’s NA Cranberry-Citrus Aperitivo:

“I love using Lapo’s Citrus Spritz as a shortcut for this tart, ruby-red drink. It builds on the spiced citrus notes of the canned NA cocktail and adds tangy cranberry, rich maple syrup, and a wintry hit of rosemary.

Be sure to use unsweetened 100% cranberry juice here, so you can control the sweetness to your taste, and get a real pop of cranberry flavor. I use cans of Saint Viviana Sparkling NA Chardonnay because it doesn’t commit you to a full bottle. The salt rounds off the edges of the drink – you won’t taste it, exactly, but you’ll miss it if it’s gone. Starting with chilled cans will help the drink retain its fizz.

If you want to show off, briefly run the rosemary sprig over a flame just to warm and ignite, blowing out immediately. This brings out the rosemary aroma and adds a touch of char.

[Makes 1]

• 1 oz. unsweetened 100% cranberry juice, such as RW Knudsen Just Cranberry, chilled
• 1¾ tsp. maple syrup
• 2 oz. Lapo’s Citrus Spritz, chilled
• 1 oz. Saint Viviana Sparkling NA Chardonnay, chilled
• Small pinch salt
• Orange wedge, for serving
• Rosemary sprig, for serving (flamed if desired)

Stir together 1 oz. RW Knudsen Just Cranberry and 1¾ tsp. maple syrup in a tumbler or double-old-fashioned glass, until maple is dissolved. 

Add 2 oz. Lapo’s Citrus Spritz, 1 oz. St. Viviana Sparkling NA Chardonnay, and small pinch salt and fill with ice. (A large cube is also nice.)

Stir gently, then garnish with orange wedge and rosemary sprig.